[TriEmbed] Project advice: SmartTV hacking
Brian Chamberlain
blchamberlain at gmail.com
Fri Sep 16 16:15:28 CDT 2022
Hi all, reviving this thread because I am in need of some additional advice
:) [Thanks in advance.]
So, my client wants to move forward with this TV camera capture project and
I am look for help drafting a contract. Does anyone have a lawyer who is
good with R&D and hardware prototyping contracts?
Thanks!
On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 12:20 PM Huan Truong <htruong at tnhh.net> wrote:
> Looks like this is one of those cases that working remotely leads to
> overengineering. I wonder if it's cheaper/easier and more versatile to hire
> a local guy who would do QA and device troubleshooting all day long.
>
> Huan Truong
> tnhh.net
>
> On Jul 28, 2022, at 6:22 AM, Brian Chamberlain via TriEmbed <
> triembed at triembed.org> wrote:
>
>
> Yeah, I have the same worries. And from the teardown videos I've been
> watching on youtube I noticed some custom ASICs in the pixel pipeline.
> Given this industry trend overall to move this way there will be almost no
> (reasonable) way "tap into" anything that resembles a video feed going
> forward. But there's still opportunity here as their camera at TV approach
> is very DIY so perhaps I can help them distill that into a more consistent
> and scalable solution on their end.
>
> Thanks all for the advice! It was really helpful to get all your views on
> this.
>
> -Brian
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 3:08 PM Kevin McClaning via TriEmbed <
> triembed at triembed.org> wrote:
>
>> I worry that each TV would become its own reverse-engineering adventure,
>> due to differing chip sets. Also, the internal chip sets will change as
>> time progresses. Even the same model of TV may have an entirely different
>> internal structure.
>>
>> Sorry to say it, but I think their web cam solution is probably the best
>> one. Maybe add some 3D printed love to give them more standardized camera
>> mounts for the various TVs types. Also, appropriate lenses may allow for
>> cameras that don't have to stick out so much from the screen.
>>
>> The thing you can count on from EVERY TV is that it will display a
>> picture and its menus to the user.
>>
>> K
>>
>>
>> On 7/27/22 14:51, Brian Chamberlain via TriEmbed wrote:
>>
>> Interesting 🤔 idea. I will ask them if they've looked into it. Thanks!
>> -Brian
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 2:35 PM Trampas Stern <trampas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It might be better to look and see if you can capture the frame buffer
>>> and send over the network, think remote desktop. I have not looked at the
>>> SmartTV API but it might include this capability for app developers.
>>>
>>> Trampas
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 2:29 PM Brian Chamberlain via TriEmbed <
>>> triembed at triembed.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Scott, Thanks for the advice and suggestions (and very cool
>>>> diagram BTW). This client makes media/software for smartTVs. So part of
>>>> their development process is that they need to test their content/software
>>>> on actual TVs. They have a solution for testing Roku's, AppleTV, game
>>>> consoles, etc...since those all have HDMI outputs. But there's a whole list
>>>> of major brand TV's and models they want to be able to test in a
>>>> similar/consistent way. Their engineering staff is remote so I'm guessing
>>>> they'd want to rack and stack these modded TV's somewhere so they can
>>>> access the output of the TV via a video stream, controlled by some kind of
>>>> IR blaster interface... if that helps paint a better picture.
>>>>
>>>> So, at this point I'm just putting together the SOW (which would
>>>> include some exploratory hands-on TV teardowns and investigation) and
>>>> requirements gathering. My gut says that there's probably not some silver
>>>> bullet solution. Each of these TV's (and maybe even different revs of the
>>>> same models) will have very different internals. So every model/brand would
>>>> be it's own research project. But perhaps some have debug/diagnostic
>>>> outputs somewhere on the main board? Though that really feels like wishful
>>>> thinking. But I am also hoping there's some other entirely sane approach to
>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>> -Brian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 12:08 PM Scott Hall <scottghall1 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Brian,
>>>>> This is done all the time in companies, churches and schools for
>>>>> "electronic signage". First, with the chipsets used, the rendering of the
>>>>> video signals is not in a form that can be 'tapped off' to be able to make
>>>>> a transmittable signal, unless the motherboard of the TV is already doing
>>>>> that for its own features -- in other words already creating an HDMI output
>>>>> port. Essentially what I do when consulting with places is to get an
>>>>> external Roku device and forgo the internal "smart" works, then use an HDMI
>>>>> distributing amplifier. If you have more than one signal source, like
>>>>> cable, Roku, DVD, etc, then an external HDMI switch is used. You chain the
>>>>> devices together kind of like this:
>>>>>
>>>>> Cable ──→╖ ╓───→ TV or Monitor
>>>>> ╠══════╗ ╔══════╣
>>>>> DVR/Camera──→╢4-to-1║ ║1-to-4╟───→ TV or Monitor
>>>>> ║ HDMI ╟───→╢ Dist.║
>>>>> DVD Player──→╢Switch║ ║ Amp ╟───→ TV or Monitor
>>>>> ╠══════╝ ╚══════╣
>>>>> Streaming ──→╜ ╙───→ TV or Monitor
>>>>> Device
>>>>>
>>>>> a sample link for a 4-to-1 HDMI switch:
>>>>> https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00OJMAXZ2/ (really a 4-to-2 switch, as
>>>>> it has 2 outputs)
>>>>>
>>>>> a sample link to a 1-to-4 HDMI distribution amp:
>>>>> https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0180PPTNO/
>>>>>
>>>>> link to a review of switches and dist. amps:
>>>>> https://www.gearhungry.com/best-hdmi-splitter/
>>>>>
>>>>> - sgh
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 10:50 AM Brian Chamberlain via TriEmbed <
>>>>> triembed at triembed.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all, Just wondering if anyone here has any TV hardware reverse
>>>>>> engineering experience? I have a client asking if I can pull a usable HDMI
>>>>>> signal off of “SmartTVs”. Basically, they want a mirror of what is on the
>>>>>> display panel (menus and all). Not just one TV but multiple brands/models.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Their current solution is pointing a web cam at the TV from a
>>>>>> distance. They’re looking for something more scalable (less space
>>>>>> requirements, easier setup, more TV brand selection, etc).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My answer to them at this is, “maybe and I’ll look into it”. They
>>>>>> seem willing to pay me to do the investigation. Which sounds like fun but I
>>>>>> am looking to talk with anyone who might have any experience with this or
>>>>>> could point me in the right direction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> -Brian
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Triangle, NC Embedded Interest Group mailing list
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Scott G. Hall
>>>>> Raleigh, NC, USA
>>>>> scottghall1 at gmail.com
>>>>> *Although kindness is rarely a job, no matter what you do it's always
>>>>> an option.*
>>>>>
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> --
-Brian
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