<div dir="auto">Hi all, reviving this thread because I am in need of some additional advice :) [Thanks in advance.]</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So, my client wants to move forward with this TV camera capture project and I am look for help drafting a contract. Does anyone have a lawyer who is good with R&D and hardware prototyping contracts?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Thanks!</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 12:20 PM Huan Truong <<a href="mailto:htruong@tnhh.net">htruong@tnhh.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Looks like this is one of those cases that working remotely leads to overengineering. I wonder if it's cheaper/easier and more versatile to hire a local guy who would do QA and device troubleshooting all day long.<div><br><div dir="ltr">Huan Truong<div><a href="http://tnhh.net" target="_blank">tnhh.net</a></div></div><div dir="ltr"><br>On Jul 28, 2022, at 6:22 AM, Brian Chamberlain via TriEmbed <<a href="mailto:triembed@triembed.org" target="_blank">triembed@triembed.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div dir="ltr"></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Yeah, I have the same worries. And from the teardown videos I've been watching on youtube I noticed some custom ASICs in the pixel pipeline. Given this industry trend overall to move this way there will be almost no (reasonable) way "tap into" anything that resembles a video feed going forward. But there's still opportunity here as their camera@TV approach is very DIY so perhaps I can help them distill that into a more consistent and scalable solution on their end.<div><div><br></div><div>Thanks all for the advice! It was really helpful to get all your views on this.<div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">-Brian<br></div></div></div><br></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 3:08 PM Kevin McClaning via TriEmbed <<a href="mailto:triembed@triembed.org" target="_blank">triembed@triembed.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>I worry that each TV would become its own reverse-engineering
adventure, due to differing chip sets. Also, the internal chip
sets will change as time progresses. Even the same model of TV may
have an entirely different internal structure. <br>
</p>
<p>Sorry to say it, but I think their web cam solution is probably
the best one. Maybe add some 3D printed love to give them more
standardized camera mounts for the various TVs types. Also,
appropriate lenses may allow for cameras that don't have to stick
out so much from the screen.</p>
<p>The thing you can count on from EVERY TV is that it will display
a picture and its menus to the user.<br>
</p>
<p>K<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 7/27/22 14:51, Brian Chamberlain via
TriEmbed wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Interesting 🤔 idea. I will ask them if they've
looked into it. Thanks!<br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">-Brian<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 2:35
PM Trampas Stern <<a href="mailto:trampas@gmail.com" target="_blank">trampas@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">It might be better to look and see if you can
capture the frame buffer and send over the network, think
remote desktop. I have not looked at the SmartTV API but it
might include this capability for app developers.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Trampas</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at
2:29 PM Brian Chamberlain via TriEmbed <<a href="mailto:triembed@triembed.org" target="_blank">triembed@triembed.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Scott, Thanks for the advice and
suggestions (and very cool diagram BTW). This client
makes media/software for smartTVs. So part of their
development process is that they need to test their
content/software on actual TVs. They have a solution for
testing Roku's, AppleTV, game consoles, etc...since
those all have HDMI outputs. But there's a whole list of
major brand TV's and models they want to be able to test
in a similar/consistent way. Their engineering staff is
remote so I'm guessing they'd want to rack and stack
these modded TV's somewhere so they can access the
output of the TV via a video stream, controlled by some
kind of IR blaster interface... if that helps paint a
better picture.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, at this point I'm just putting together the SOW
(which would include some exploratory hands-on TV
teardowns and investigation) and requirements
gathering. My gut says that there's probably not some
silver bullet solution. Each of these TV's (and maybe
even different revs of the same models) will have very
different internals. So every model/brand would be
it's own research project. But perhaps some have
debug/diagnostic outputs somewhere on the main board?
Though that really feels like wishful thinking. But I
am also hoping there's some other entirely sane
approach to this. </div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">-Brian<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 27, 2022
at 12:08 PM Scott Hall <<a href="mailto:scottghall1@gmail.com" target="_blank">scottghall1@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Brian,</div>
<div>This is done all the time in companies,
churches and schools for "electronic signage".
First, with the chipsets used, the rendering of
the video signals is not in a form that can be
'tapped off' to be able to make a transmittable
signal, unless the motherboard of the TV is
already doing that for its own features -- in
other words already creating an HDMI output port.
Essentially what I do when consulting with places
is to get an external Roku device and forgo the
internal "smart" works, then use an HDMI
distributing amplifier. If you have more than one
signal source, like cable, Roku, DVD, etc, then an
external HDMI switch is used. You chain the
devices together kind of like this:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span style="font-family:monospace">Cable ──→╖
╓───→ TV or Monitor<br>
╠══════╗ ╔══════╣<br>
DVR/Camera──→╢4-to-1║ ║1-to-4╟───→ TV or
Monitor<br>
║ HDMI ╟───→╢ Dist.║<br>
DVD Player──→╢Switch║ ║ Amp ╟───→ TV or
Monitor<br>
╠══════╝ ╚══════╣ <br>
Streaming ──→╜ ╙───→ TV or
Monitor<br>
Device</span><br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>a sample link for a 4-to-1 HDMI switch: <a href="https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00OJMAXZ2/" target="_blank">https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00OJMAXZ2/</a>
(really a 4-to-2 switch, as it has 2 outputs)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>a sample link to a 1-to-4 HDMI distribution
amp: <a href="https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0180PPTNO/" target="_blank">https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0180PPTNO/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>link to a review of switches and dist. amps: <a href="https://www.gearhungry.com/best-hdmi-splitter/" target="_blank">https://www.gearhungry.com/best-hdmi-splitter/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- sgh<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 27,
2022 at 10:50 AM Brian Chamberlain via TriEmbed
<<a href="mailto:triembed@triembed.org" target="_blank">triembed@triembed.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi all, Just
wondering if anyone here has any TV hardware
reverse engineering experience? I have a client
asking if I can pull a usable HDMI signal off of
“SmartTVs”. Basically, they want a mirror of what
is on the display panel (menus and all). Not just
one TV but multiple brands/models.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Their current solution is pointing
a web cam at the TV from a distance. They’re
looking for something more scalable (less space
requirements, easier setup, more TV brand
selection, etc). </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">My answer to them at this is,
“maybe and I’ll look into it”. They seem willing
to pay me to do the investigation. Which sounds
like fun but I am looking to talk with anyone
who might have any experience with this or could
point me in the right direction.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks!</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">-Brian<br>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Triangle, NC Embedded Interest Group mailing list<br>
<br>
To post message: <a href="mailto:TriEmbed@triembed.org" target="_blank">TriEmbed@triembed.org</a><br>
List info: <a href="http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org</a><br>
TriEmbed web site: <a href="https://TriEmbed.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://TriEmbed.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe, click link and send a blank
message: mailto:<a href="mailto:unsubscribe-TriEmbed@bitser.net" target="_blank">unsubscribe-TriEmbed@bitser.net</a>?subject=unsubscribe<br>
Searchable email archive available at <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/triembed@triembed.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/triembed@triembed.org/</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Scott G. Hall<br>
Raleigh, NC, USA<br>
<a href="mailto:scottghall1@gmail.com" target="_blank">scottghall1@gmail.com</a></div>
<i>Although kindness is rarely a job, no
matter what you do it's always an
option.</i><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Triangle, NC Embedded Interest Group mailing list<br>
<br>
To post message: <a href="mailto:TriEmbed@triembed.org" target="_blank">TriEmbed@triembed.org</a><br>
List info: <a href="http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org</a><br>
TriEmbed web site: <a href="https://TriEmbed.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://TriEmbed.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe, click link and send a blank message:
mailto:<a href="mailto:unsubscribe-TriEmbed@bitser.net" target="_blank">unsubscribe-TriEmbed@bitser.net</a>?subject=unsubscribe<br>
Searchable email archive available at <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/triembed@triembed.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/triembed@triembed.org/</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Triangle, NC Embedded Interest Group mailing list
To post message: <a href="mailto:TriEmbed@triembed.org" target="_blank">TriEmbed@triembed.org</a>
List info: <a href="http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org" target="_blank">http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org</a>
TriEmbed web site: <a href="https://TriEmbed.org" target="_blank">https://TriEmbed.org</a>
To unsubscribe, click link and send a blank message: <a href="mailto:unsubscribe-TriEmbed@bitser.net?subject=unsubscribe" target="_blank">mailto:unsubscribe-TriEmbed@bitser.net?subject=unsubscribe</a>
Searchable email archive available at <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/triembed@triembed.org/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/triembed@triembed.org/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Triangle, NC Embedded Interest Group mailing list<br>
<br>
To post message: <a href="mailto:TriEmbed@triembed.org" target="_blank">TriEmbed@triembed.org</a><br>
List info: <a href="http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org</a><br>
TriEmbed web site: <a href="https://TriEmbed.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://TriEmbed.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe, click link and send a blank message: mailto:<a href="mailto:unsubscribe-TriEmbed@bitser.net" target="_blank">unsubscribe-TriEmbed@bitser.net</a>?subject=unsubscribe<br>
Searchable email archive available at <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/triembed@triembed.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/triembed@triembed.org/</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Triangle, NC Embedded Interest Group mailing list</span><br><span></span><br><span>To post message: <a href="mailto:TriEmbed@triembed.org" target="_blank">TriEmbed@triembed.org</a></span><br><span>List info: <a href="http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org" target="_blank">http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org</a></span><br><span>TriEmbed web site: <a href="https://TriEmbed.org" target="_blank">https://TriEmbed.org</a></span><br><span>To unsubscribe, click link and send a blank message: mailto:<a href="mailto:unsubscribe-TriEmbed@bitser.net" target="_blank">unsubscribe-TriEmbed@bitser.net</a>?subject=unsubscribe</span><br><span>Searchable email archive available at <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/triembed@triembed.org/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/triembed@triembed.org/</a></span><br><span></span><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">-Brian<br></div></div>