[TriEmbed] TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 20

Chip McClelland chip at mcclellands.org
Wed Aug 24 22:57:27 CDT 2016


Shane, 

That makes a lot of sense.  By looking at a specific time and for a specific carrier frequency (38 kHz), I can better see the signal against the background noise.  

So, instead of a phototransistor circuit, I would use an IR receiver sensor such as this one - http://www.vishay.com/docs/82474/tssp4p38.pdf <http://www.vishay.com/docs/82474/tssp4p38.pdf>

To reduce the duty cycle, I would only run the 38kHz signal in bursts or 10-12 pulses.

Will check this out.

Chi



> On Aug 24, 2016, at 7:58 PM, triembed-request at triembed.org wrote:
> 
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 19 (Chip McClelland)
>   2. Re: TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 18 (Shane Trent)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 18:55:27 -0700
> From: Chip McClelland <chip at mcclellands.org>
> To: triembed at triembed.org
> Subject: Re: [TriEmbed] TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 19
> Message-ID: <F773AEFC-0708-49C4-BD44-D975746435E7 at mcclellands.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Alex, 
> 
> VERY COOL!  I am definitely going to buy one of these.  Two problems:
> 	- the pedestrians are walking perpendicular to the sensor so not as much of a doppler shift
> 	- at 37mA, it is way over my energy budget.  I can only afford 2-3mA max.  
> 
> Still, cool.
> 
> Chip
> 
> 
>> On Aug 24, 2016, at 6:49 PM, triembed-request at triembed.org wrote:
>> 
>> Send TriEmbed mailing list submissions to
>> 	triembed at triembed.org
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>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of TriEmbed digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Re: TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 18 (Alex Davis)
>>  2. Re: TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 18 (Chip McClelland)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:33:20 -0400
>> From: Alex Davis <alexd at matrixwide.com>
>> To: triembed at triembed.org
>> Subject: Re: [TriEmbed] TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 18
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<1472060000.2642054.704996873.58776D1D at webmail.messagingengine.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>> 
>> tent-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> 
>>> If you decide to use 38kHz carrier, you will either use a lot of energy
>>> or
>>> limit your distance.
>>> Here's my suggestion:
>>> 1. set IR LED's current to 100mA or higher (up to 1A,)
>>> 2. send 1us-5us  pulses, 10 to 50 per second,
>>> 3. use pin interrupt and timer to detect and count missing pulses
>>> 4. use lens (LED) and IR filter (detector)
>> 
>> I wonder if you could adapt these cheapo microwave doppler sensors -
>> maybe mount them in a 'cantenna' to make them directional?
>> 
>> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/wholesale-HB100-5pcs-Wireless-Doppler-Radar-Microwave-Motion-Sensor-Module-and-microwave-motion-detector/545656348.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_5_10057_10056_10065_10055_10054_10059_10058_10017_107_10060_10061_10052_414_10062_10053_10050_10051,searchweb201603_7&btsid=f21587b3-a261-46b7-9e49-7bd3216a3d33
>> 
>> You've probably got to accept a degree of false positives with those.
>> 
>> Alex
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> "The theater of noise is proof of our potential."
>> |\ |  (?  \/ |?\  |V| |\ ?|? |?) | \/ | | | |?\ (?   /?  /\ |V|
>> |-||_ (_  /\ |_/ @| | |-| |  | \ | /\ |^| | |_/ (_ . \_  \/ | |
>> 
>> You won't find me on Facebook.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 18:32:37 -0700
>> From: Chip McClelland <chip at mcclellands.org>
>> To: triembed at triembed.org
>> Subject: Re: [TriEmbed] TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 18
>> Message-ID: <6C64A6AA-A568-45D8-83D1-88C5ED12E091 at mcclellands.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Robert and all, 
>> 
>> So, here is what I am thinking, please let me know if there is a better way.
>> 
>> 1) Transmitter - use a LMC555 timer to deliver 10 , 1uSec pulses a second in Astable mode.  The data sheet <http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lmc555.pdf> for the LMC555 timer says it can handle  .  This circuit will be turned on and off by the Arduino but that is all no PWM or triggering required. It will drive a 100mA 850nm emitter <http://www.marktechopto.com/pdf/products/datasheet/MTPS8085P_2015-05-07.pdf> with a very focused beam.
>> 
>> 2) Receiver  - I will use a matched 850nm phototransistor <http://www.vishay.com/docs/81527/bpw77n.pdf> wired as a common emitter amplifier.  That way, the received pulse will cause the interrupt pin to go LOW and wake the Arduino.  
>> 
>> 3) Software, I will create a simple interrupt service routine that will register a pulse and determine how many if any pulses have been missed.  I can use a running average smoothing function to get rid of noise so I don?t count a falling leaf.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I hope I am not missing something.  Is there a better way to do this?  Will I run into issues with changing ambient light or rain / snow causing problems?  Will see but any heads up are appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Chip
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 24, 2016, at 10:00 AM, triembed-request at triembed.org wrote:
>>> 
>>> Send TriEmbed mailing list submissions to
>>> 	triembed at triembed.org
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>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of TriEmbed digest..."
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>>> 
>>> Today's Topics:
>>> 
>>> 1. Re: TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 16 (Robert Gasiorowski)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:16:57 -0400
>>> From: Robert Gasiorowski <rgresume at gmail.com>
>>> To: Chip McClelland <chip at mcclellands.org>
>>> Cc: "triembed at triembed.org" <triembed at triembed.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [TriEmbed] TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 16
>>> Message-ID:
>>> 	<CAEU50hUQ+S3f4_KTHTAXRCEmMx_tGiuGeb1k61Wq1atiCf12dw at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> 
>>> If you decide to use 38kHz carrier, you will either use a lot of energy or
>>> limit your distance.
>>> Here's my suggestion:
>>> 1. set IR LED's current to 100mA or higher (up to 1A,)
>>> 2. send 1us-5us  pulses, 10 to 50 per second,
>>> 3. use pin interrupt and timer to detect and count missing pulses
>>> 4. use lens (LED) and IR filter (detector)
>>> 
>>> Alternatively, you could use short bursts of 38kHz carrier (also at higher
>>> current, but probably not as high as above.) This way, you could use one of
>>> Vishay's detectors, which usually come with IR filters.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Chip McClelland via TriEmbed <
>>> triembed at triembed.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Alex, yes, bought and tested that one. But humans are not reflective sir
>>>> only about 12'. Cars to 30' easy so will eventually use it to replace the
>>>> pneumatic tubes across the road.
>>>> 
>>>> Bought a matched pair of IR emitter and phototransistor yesterday. Will
>>>> see if I can build my own circuit as this seems to be a new and novel
>>>> application (!?).
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks, chip
>>>> 
>>>> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016, <triembed-request at triembed.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Send TriEmbed mailing list submissions to
>>>>>      triembed at triembed.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>>      http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org
>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>>      triembed-request at triembed.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>>      triembed-owner at triembed.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>> than "Re: Contents of TriEmbed digest..."
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1. Re: TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 15 (Alex Davis)
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> 
>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>> Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:28:21 -0400
>>>>> From: Alex Davis <alexd at matrixwide.com>
>>>>> To: triembed at triembed.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TriEmbed] TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 15
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>      <1471886901.1337427.702662641.4268E605 at webmail.
>>>>> messagingengine.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> All,  any ideas on a low power (5mA and 3.3-5V) IR beam sensor
>>>>>> (transmitter
>>>>>> and reflector) I could use in an outdoor setting?  Need to count
>>>>>> pedestrians walking on a gravel road and the width - 30' - is too great
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> ultrasonic. Ideally, could buy the sensor components directly and
>>>>>> integrate
>>>>>> them with my data logger board.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chip,
>>>>> 
>>>>> looks like this one (https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11724) can be had
>>>>> in a 10-meter version, and uses 2.9 mA average, so maybe ultrasonic
>>>>> would work.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think decent-range beam-break is going to take some decent current.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alex
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> "The theater of noise is proof of our potential."
>>>>> |\ |  (?  \/ |?\  |V| |\ ?|? |?) | \/ | | | |?\ (?   /?  /\ |V|
>>>>> |-||_ (_  /\ |_/ @| | |-| |  | \ | /\ |^| | |_/ (_ . \_  \/ | |
>>>>> 
>>>>> You won't find me on Facebook.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> 
>>>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TriEmbed mailing list
>>>>> TriEmbed at triembed.org
>>>>> http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> 
>>>>> End of TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 16
>>>>> ****************************************
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from my iPhone - please excuse the typos
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Triangle, NC Embedded Computing mailing list
>>>> TriEmbed at triembed.org
>>>> http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org
>>>> TriEmbed web site: http://TriEmbed.org
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>>> End of TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 18
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>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TriEmbed mailing list
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>> End of TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 19
>> ****************************************
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 02:53:58 +0000
> From: Shane Trent <shanedtrent at gmail.com>
> To: Chip McClelland <chip at mcclellands.org>, triembed at triembed.org
> Subject: Re: [TriEmbed] TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 18
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAAFjd3rs3=XRP9sNps_gevNupt=WVxzP3nSLJpQEOPBqQFXTUA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Chip,
> 
> You may have a hard time differentiating your pulses from ambient solar IR.
> And getting the level just right to trigger an interrupt reliability under
> changing solar brightness conditions may be a challenge. Good shielding of
> your receiver will help.
> 
> You may need a modulated carrier to help pull your signal from the
> background IR. Some demodulators (IR detector) can lock on to the carrier
> in 10 cycles or so. In theory this means a demodulator could detect a
> packet of 38 kHz pulses that contains 10 pulses and have a total length of
> around 0.26 milliseconds.
> 
> So you could gate your 555 timer (or just use a timer on the uController to
> generate the 38 kHz carrier) to generate packets of IR at high current but
> at a low repeat rate and use the output of your demodulator to trigger your
> interrupt. Using a 50% on/off ratio on a 38 kHz carrier you could sample
> your IR optical path for completion at a rate of 1.9 kHz  (= 0.5 * 38 kHz /
> 10 pulses).
> 
> So just figure out how quickly you need to sample to not miss an any
> objects and you are set. So if you decide you can sample at 38 Hz and catch
> everything you want, I believe you would be running at about a 1%
> duty-cycle on your IR emitter.
> 
> You would set a timer to fire every 26 milliseconds and generate 10 cycles
> (may want to make it 11 or 12?) of 38 kHz (taking 0.26 milliseconds) and
> after the end of the last pulse check to see for a interrupt from the IR
> detector set the "detected" flag and go back to sleep until the 26
> millisecond timer fires again. Or would that make the LED duty-cycle 0.5%
> since it is only on for half of the 0.26 milliseconds? Anyway you can
> really hammer on the LED since your duty-cycle is so low. And you will sill
> have a low average current on the transmitter.
> 
> Shane
> 
> On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 9:49 PM Chip McClelland via TriEmbed <
> triembed at triembed.org> wrote:
> 
>> Robert and all,
>> 
>> So, here is what I am thinking, please let me know if there is a better
>> way.
>> 
>> 1) Transmitter - use a LMC555 timer to deliver 10 , 1uSec pulses a second
>> in Astable mode.  The data sheet
>> <http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lmc555.pdf> for the LMC555 timer says
>> it can handle  .  This circuit will be turned on and off by the Arduino but
>> that is all no PWM or triggering required. It will drive a 100mA 850nm
>> emitter
>> <http://www.marktechopto.com/pdf/products/datasheet/MTPS8085P_2015-05-07.pdf> with
>> a very focused beam.
>> 
>> 2) Receiver  - I will use a matched 850nm phototransistor
>> <http://www.vishay.com/docs/81527/bpw77n.pdf> wired as a common emitter
>> amplifier.  That way, the received pulse will cause the interrupt pin to go
>> LOW and wake the Arduino.
>> 
>> 3) Software, I will create a simple interrupt service routine that will
>> register a pulse and determine how many if any pulses have been missed.  I
>> can use a running average smoothing function to get rid of noise so I don?t
>> count a falling leaf.
>> 
>> 
>> I hope I am not missing something.  Is there a better way to do this?
>> Will I run into issues with changing ambient light or rain / snow causing
>> problems?  Will see but any heads up are appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Chip
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 24, 2016, at 10:00 AM, triembed-request at triembed.org wrote:
>> 
>> Send TriEmbed mailing list submissions to
>> triembed at triembed.org
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> triembed-request at triembed.org
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> triembed-owner at triembed.org
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of TriEmbed digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Re: TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 16 (Robert Gasiorowski)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:16:57 -0400
>> From: Robert Gasiorowski <rgresume at gmail.com>
>> To: Chip McClelland <chip at mcclellands.org>
>> Cc: "triembed at triembed.org" <triembed at triembed.org>
>> Subject: Re: [TriEmbed] TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 16
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAEU50hUQ+S3f4_KTHTAXRCEmMx_tGiuGeb1k61Wq1atiCf12dw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If you decide to use 38kHz carrier, you will either use a lot of energy or
>> limit your distance.
>> Here's my suggestion:
>> 1. set IR LED's current to 100mA or higher (up to 1A,)
>> 2. send 1us-5us  pulses, 10 to 50 per second,
>> 3. use pin interrupt and timer to detect and count missing pulses
>> 4. use lens (LED) and IR filter (detector)
>> 
>> Alternatively, you could use short bursts of 38kHz carrier (also at higher
>> current, but probably not as high as above.) This way, you could use one of
>> Vishay's detectors, which usually come with IR filters.
>> 
>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Chip McClelland via TriEmbed <
>> triembed at triembed.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Alex, yes, bought and tested that one. But humans are not reflective sir
>> only about 12'. Cars to 30' easy so will eventually use it to replace the
>> pneumatic tubes across the road.
>> 
>> Bought a matched pair of IR emitter and phototransistor yesterday. Will
>> see if I can build my own circuit as this seems to be a new and novel
>> application (!?).
>> 
>> Thanks, chip
>> 
>> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016, <triembed-request at triembed.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Send TriEmbed mailing list submissions to
>>       triembed at triembed.org
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>       http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>       triembed-request at triembed.org
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>       triembed-owner at triembed.org
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of TriEmbed digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Re: TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 15 (Alex Davis)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:28:21 -0400
>> From: Alex Davis <alexd at matrixwide.com>
>> To: triembed at triembed.org
>> Subject: Re: [TriEmbed] TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 15
>> Message-ID:
>>       <1471886901.1337427.702662641.4268E605 at webmail.
>> messagingengine.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>> 
>> 
>> All,  any ideas on a low power (5mA and 3.3-5V) IR beam sensor
>> (transmitter
>> and reflector) I could use in an outdoor setting?  Need to count
>> pedestrians walking on a gravel road and the width - 30' - is too great
>> for
>> ultrasonic. Ideally, could buy the sensor components directly and
>> integrate
>> them with my data logger board.
>> 
>> 
>> Chip,
>> 
>> looks like this one (https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11724) can be had
>> in a 10-meter version, and uses 2.9 mA average, so maybe ultrasonic
>> would work.
>> 
>> I think decent-range beam-break is going to take some decent current.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Alex
>> 
>> --
>> "The theater of noise is proof of our potential."
>> 
>> |\ |  (?  \/ |?\  |V| |\ ?|? |?) | \/ | | | |?\ (?   /?  /\ |V|
>> 
>> 
>> |-||_ (_  /\ |_/ @| | |-| |  | \ | /\ |^| | |_/ (_ . \_  \/ | |
>> 
>> You won't find me on Facebook.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TriEmbed mailing list
>> TriEmbed at triembed.org
>> http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 16
>> ****************************************
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from my iPhone - please excuse the typos
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Triangle, NC Embedded Computing mailing list
>> TriEmbed at triembed.org
>> http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org
>> TriEmbed web site: http://TriEmbed.org
>> 
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>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TriEmbed mailing list
>> TriEmbed at triembed.org
>> http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of TriEmbed Digest, Vol 39, Issue 18
>> ****************************************
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Triangle, NC Embedded Computing mailing list
>> TriEmbed at triembed.org
>> http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org
>> TriEmbed web site: http://TriEmbed.org
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> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
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