[TriEmbed] Logic Analyzer Recommendatio (Christopher Svec)

Mon Jan 19 16:16:17 CST 2015

I'll do my best to remember to bring them - please feel free to remind me
before the next meeting! :-)

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Charles McClelland <chip at mcclellands.org>
wrote:

> Chris,
>
> I would certainly be interested in a demo.  The idea of moving beyond
> Serial.println(“debug info here”) is huge and I am excited to see how best
> to use these tools from folks like yourself who have experience.  Given the
> relatively low price, I would think this topic would have broad appeal to
> the group.
>
> I think I will get a Saleae Logic device but am torn between the Logic 4
> and 8 and - of course - neither are currently available.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chip
>
>
> > On Jan 19, 2015, at 5:00 PM, triembed-request at triembed.org wrote:
> >
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> >
> >   1. Re: Logic Analyzer Recommendatio
> >      (=?utf-8?B?cGV0ZUBzb3Blci51cw==?=)
> >   2. Re: Logic Analyzer Recommendatio (Christopher Svec)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 16:47:13 -0500
> > From: "=?utf-8?B?cGV0ZUBzb3Blci51cw==?=" <pete at soper.us>
> > To: "=?utf-8?B?R2xlbiBTbWl0aA==?=" <mrglenasmith at gmail.com>,
> >       "=?utf-8?B?VHJpRW1iZWQgRGlzY3Vzc2lvbg==?=" <triembed at triembed.org>
> > Subject: Re: [TriEmbed] Logic Analyzer Recommendatio
> > Message-ID:
> >       <mailman.34.1421704813.65422.triembed_triembed.org at triembed.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > When they say the older bp has the same major features they leave out
> "and unlike with the new rev the features are all in the firmware as well
> as the marketing literature". Seriously, this is one of those rare cases
> where the implicit vs explicit contracts of open source sometimes fall
> short. If you want the new bp i'm sure Splatspace will make a deal. :-)
> >
> > ----- Reply message -----
> > From: "Glen Smith" <mrglenasmith at gmail.com>
> > To: "TriEmbed Discussion" <triembed at triembed.org>
> > Subject: [TriEmbed] Logic Analyzer Recommendatio
> > Date: Mon, Jan 19, 2015 3:53 PM
> >
> > I don't have any personal experience to add, but with all the talk I
> went looking for info on the Bus Pirate 3 & 4.
> >
> > From the Seed Studio web site:
> > "Seeed Studio
> > is the official manufacturer and supporter of the Bus Pirate project.
> > Version 4 is the next generation Bus Pirate hardware, but it's not as
> > stable as Bus Pirate v3.
> > If you're just starting out with the Bus Pirate we still recommend v3 -
> > it's cheaper, more reliable, and has all the same major features. See a
> > Bus Pirate v4 vs v3 comparison. Protocols
> > 1-Wire, I2C, SPI, JTAG, asynchronous serial (UART), MIDI, PC keyboard,
> > HD44780 LCDs, and generic 2- and 3-wire libraries for custom protocols."
> >
> > It sounds like if you want to get some work done using the thing, V3 is
> the way to go, if you want another project, V4 apparently needs help
> getting firmed up.
> >
> > Glen
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Jon Wolfe <jonjwolfe at anibit.com> wrote:
> > I should have mentioned that about the bus pirate.? The 3.x version has
> been the recommended version for a long time. It seems like as Pete said,
> that the 4.x has been in beta forever. I have never used a 4.x but I've
> almost bought one just for comparison several times.
> > I also have the open logic sniffer, ?and I still give an edge the the
> sallae logic in the usability, especially in client tools. The ols is
> technically faster and has more data lines, but at high speeds the on board
> buffer fills in no time. There is a differential/rle mode I think, but it
> was wonky for me when I tried. If your smaple rate is low enough, ?the
> sallea streams over usb so you essentially have an unlimited buffer.? I
> don't think the ols can do that. The ols does have more sophisticated
> triggers iirc though.
> >
> > Ther short answer Chip, is that you should just go out amd buy yourself
> one of each ;)
> >
> > --Jon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: Pete Soper
> > Date:01/19/2015  3:27 PM  (GMT-05:00)
> > To: triembed at triembed.org
> > Subject: Re: [TriEmbed] Logic Analyzer Recommendatio
> >
> >
> > Sorry to be late to the party.
> >
> >
> >
> > Two things with the bus pirate:
> >
> > ??? 1) Be super-careful to avoid the "latest" hardware version if
> > the software for that never got completed. I don't know if this
> > situation was ever corrected, but the last time I checked after (the
> > worthless) Bus Pirate for Splatspace wasn't cooperating the firmware
> > author appeared to have publicly backed away from completing the
> > work (but that was at least 18 months ago).
> >
> > ?? 2) The Bus Pirate is so slow and that even it's maker warns
> > against considering it equivalent to a logic analyzer for high speed
> > data.
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been using the Dangerous Prototypes "Open Bench Logic Sniffer"
> > for a long time and it's gotten the job done. It isn't particularly
> > fast (200msps as I recall) but that's been fast enough for every
> > situation I've been in, and should certainly be adequate for SPI.
> >
> > The problematic aspect with this hardware is that even the best
> > client software (OLS) is a
> > bit brittle with respect to the USB interface, occasionally
> > requiring a restart.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Pete
> >
> >
> >
> > On 01/18/2015 11:54 AM, Chip McClelland
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > To?all, ?thanks for the responses thus far. I have one
> > other question before I pull the trigger on this.? Does the Saleae
> > doe enough extra to justify the extra price over the Bus Pirate? ?
> > My main focus today is listening to the I2C bus but am open to
> > getting a more capable tool if it may be helpful in the future.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks, ?
> >
> > Chip?
> >
> >
> >
> > O
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Triangle, NC Embedded Computing mailing list
> >
> > TriEmbed at triembed.org
> >
> > http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org
> >
> > TriEmbed web site: http://TriEmbed.org
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 16:59:25 -0500
> > From: Christopher Svec <christophersvec at gmail.com>
> > To: "pete at soper.us" <pete at soper.us>
> > Cc: TriEmbed Discussion <triembed at triembed.org>
> > Subject: Re: [TriEmbed] Logic Analyzer Recommendatio
> > Message-ID:
> >       <CADdJ5eUou8ZWVHFqTwCri9DEf5Bc_5b2aD1s2=
> LdJzM+atxPzQ at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > I've been using Saleae's original products for a few years now and have
> > been relatively happy with them. Though you can't buy them anymore,
> > hopefully the newer products are also good.
> >
> > Their "Logic" was an 8 channel logic analyzer, and "Logic 16" was the
> > 16-channel version. No analog support on either, just digital inputs.
> Their
> > software is cross platform (I've used it on Mac, Linux, and Windows);
> it's
> > pretty good, thought of course it has a few bugs.
> >
> > I'm happy to bring & demo them to the next triembed meetup if anyone is
> > interested.
> >
> > -svec
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 4:47 PM, pete at soper.us <pete at soper.us> wrote:
> >
> >> When they say the older bp has the same major features they leave out
> "and
> >> unlike with the new rev the features are all in the firmware as well as
> the
> >> marketing literature". Seriously, this is one of those rare cases where
> the
> >> implicit vs explicit contracts of open source sometimes fall short. If
> you
> >> want the new bp i'm sure Splatspace will make a deal. :-)
> >> ----- Reply message -----
> >> From: "Glen Smith" <mrglenasmith at gmail.com>
> >> To: "TriEmbed Discussion" <triembed at triembed.org>
> >> Subject: [TriEmbed] Logic Analyzer Recommendatio
> >> Date: Mon, Jan 19, 2015 3:53 PM
> >>
> >> I don't have any personal experience to add, but with all the talk I
> went
> >> looking for info on the Bus Pirate 3 & 4.
> >>
> >> From the Seed Studio web site:
> >> "Seeed Studio is the official manufacturer and supporter of the Bus
> Pirate
> >> project. Version 4 is the next generation Bus Pirate hardware, but it's
> not
> >> as stable as Bus Pirate v3
> >> <
> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/bus-pirate-v3-assembled-p-609.html?cPath=174
> >.
> >> If you're just starting out with the Bus Pirate we still recommend v3 -
> >> it's cheaper, more reliable, and has all the same major features. See a
> Bus
> >> Pirate v4 vs v3 comparison
> >> <http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Bus_Pirate_v4_vs_v3_comparison>.
> >> *Protocols* 1-Wire, I2C, SPI, JTAG, asynchronous serial (UART), MIDI, PC
> >> keyboard, HD44780 LCDs, and generic 2- and 3-wire libraries for custom
> >> protocols."
> >>
> >> It sounds like if you want to get some work done using the thing, V3 is
> >> the way to go, if you want another project, V4 apparently needs help
> >> getting firmed up.
> >>
> >> Glen
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Jon Wolfe <jonjwolfe at anibit.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I should have mentioned that about the bus pirate.  The 3.x version has
> >>> been the recommended version for a long time. It seems like as Pete
> said,
> >>> that the 4.x has been in beta forever. I have never used a 4.x but I've
> >>> almost bought one just for comparison several times.
> >>>
> >>> I also have the open logic sniffer,  and I still give an edge the the
> >>> sallae logic in the usability, especially in client tools. The ols is
> >>> technically faster and has more data lines, but at high speeds the on
> board
> >>> buffer fills in no time. There is a differential/rle mode I think, but
> it
> >>> was wonky for me when I tried. If your smaple rate is low enough,  the
> >>> sallea streams over usb so you essentially have an unlimited buffer.  I
> >>> don't think the ols can do that. The ols does have more sophisticated
> >>> triggers iirc though.
> >>>
> >>> Ther short answer Chip, is that you should just go out amd buy yourself
> >>> one of each ;)
> >>>
> >>> --Jon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -------- Original message --------
> >>> From: Pete Soper
> >>> Date:01/19/2015 3:27 PM (GMT-05:00)
> >>> To: triembed at triembed.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [TriEmbed] Logic Analyzer Recommendatio
> >>>
> >>> Sorry to be late to the party.
> >>>
> >>> Two things with the bus pirate:
> >>>    1) Be super-careful to avoid the "latest" hardware version if the
> >>> software for that never got completed. I don't know if this situation
> was
> >>> ever corrected, but the last time I checked after (the worthless) Bus
> >>> Pirate for Splatspace wasn't cooperating the firmware author appeared
> to
> >>> have publicly backed away from completing the work (but that was at
> least
> >>> 18 months ago).
> >>>   2) The Bus Pirate is so slow and that even it's maker warns against
> >>> considering it equivalent to a logic analyzer for high speed data.
> >>>
> >>> I've been using the Dangerous Prototypes "Open Bench Logic Sniffer"
> for a
> >>> long time and it's gotten the job done. It isn't particularly fast
> (200msps
> >>> as I recall) but that's been fast enough for every situation I've been
> in,
> >>> and should certainly be adequate for SPI.
> >>> The problematic aspect with this hardware is that even the best client
> >>> software (OLS <http://www.lxtreme.nl/ols/>) is a bit brittle with
> >>> respect to the USB interface, occasionally requiring a restart.
> >>>
> >>> -Pete
> >>>
> >>> On 01/18/2015 11:54 AM, Chip McClelland wrote:
> >>>
> >>> To all,  thanks for the responses thus far. I have one other question
> >>> before I pull the trigger on this.  Does the Saleae doe enough extra to
> >>> justify the extra price over the Bus Pirate?   My main focus today is
> >>> listening to the I2C bus but am open to getting a more capable tool if
> it
> >>> may be helpful in the future.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Chip
> >>>
> >>> O
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Triangle, NC Embedded Computing mailing list
> >>> TriEmbed at triembed.org
> >>> http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org
> >>> TriEmbed web site: http://TriEmbed.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Triangle, NC Embedded Computing mailing list
> >> TriEmbed at triembed.org
> >> http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org
> >> TriEmbed web site: http://TriEmbed.org
> >>
> >>
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