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<p>On 1/8/21 10:42 AM, Gregg Tracton via TriEmbed wrote:</p>
<p>I disagree that these are all good points. <br>
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace">Ads pay the bills. Who
pays the bills for the mailist?<br>
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<p>I do. The cost is about 1/10 as much as I've lost with bad biz
decisions in six months. Figuring this list is 10% of my personal
domain server fees that's vaguely $50 so far for the past seven
years, and if it was a burden people would fall all over
themselves to relieve me of it. A virtual hat was passed and the
domain registration is paid up until 5/25/2027. Ads we don't agree
to are not my idea of a community service. I long ago passed on
somebody's urging that we monetize the web site, let alone the
email list. I've even hesitated to put a badge on the site to
publish the tiny ISP that's kept things going for me with amazing
availability numbers for over 20 years.<br>
</p>
<p>I would offer Google Hangouts to consider, where the entire
stream of content is persistent and, with enough back flips,
possible to archive. Except Google is putting a bullet through
Hangouts' head in a few months and I'm not happy about the traffic
going through their systems anyway and so I doubt I'd want to
contribute to that change. (Of course: 90+% of you use Gmail, so
this might seem moot). I'm told everybody should use the new
"improved" Google Meet that segregates the AI training chat to a
separate app. And Meet works very, very well for audio and video
but the built in chat bites. <br>
</p>
<p>In my opinion a valid complaint is the limit on message sizes and
some forms of multimedia files being banned (by my ISP and he
won't budge because the vast majority of his users are on Windows
systems and many might still be W95!). Nobody has yelled much
about this, to my amazement. But my ISP deal is killer: if we need
more space we can get it, so bumping the posting size limit from
250kilobytes is not cast in stone.<br>
</p>
<p>The amateur radio contesting list I'm on (also a GNU Mailman
list) is an overflowing fountain of useful information, friendly
exchanges, comradery, people bailing others out of crisis
situations (software with radio contesting is COMPLEX these days
and Murphy waits until five minutes into the BIG CONTEST before
hosing you), etc. And yes, it's old farts (guestimate median age
of 58 and close to zero under 30). But it's because we can get the
*whole story* about poorly or maliciously designed social media
choices that if forced to move to FB there would be very strong
push back by many of the guys (yes, guys: amateur radio in this
country is roughly as sexist as so many other tech cliques and the
contesters are about 3X 'cause of extra layers of hangups that
create a very strong repulsion field). Actually, it's more
fundamental than that. The guy who has kept that list going for
the past 25 years would simply refuse to switch to FB and that
would be the end of it, 'cause that group is run by a half a
shoestring too and nobody, but nobody would look forward to owning
a GNU Mailman list who hasn't had any contact with "computing in
the old days" because it is simply alien compared to modern
approaches. But there is no walled garden with our list. It could
be moved to another server in an hour's time by my ISP
coordinating with others.<br>
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace">And the PRO's are
overwhelming: deleting posts (ex, to limit the spread of</div>
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That's been a hypothetical with this list: it is impossible to
delete a post from the archive without begging to the ISP, and this
has never happened with this list. Instead we're extremely careful
to vet subscribers, but the bad actors are absolutely obvious like
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:igor@pornRus.ru">igor@pornRus.ru</a> . But maybe I misunderstood your use of "PRO". <br>
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style="font-family:monospace,monospace">a bad link), simple
polls, splitting broadcasts from conversations, or a Q&A</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace">requirement that
qualifies members for joining, like:</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace"> name a circuit
you're familiar with.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace"> what's the
functional difference between a robot and a cyborg?</div>
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<p>That doesn't wash. The email traffic level is less than trivial.
Getting on the email list is less than trivial: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:admin@triembed.org">mailto:admin@triembed.org</a>
. I just tried it, and from clicking on the main page, then email,
then the admin link took less than 10 seconds. Hmm, maybe should
have this at the bottom of postings and a button on the main web
page.<br>
</p>
<p>But finally, this has all happened before. Before Internet was
Arpanet and before that was UUCP along with a vast but less
sophisticated bulletin boards, both driven by dialup modems.
Remember usenet? Remember the extraordinarily deep, broad
discussions roughly segregated by categories? That worked
extremely well. There wasn't the division of modern social media
as much as fractured, bruised and battered egos, chronic
degeneration to ad hominem when somebody runs out of logical
arguments, etc. It was people being people, the trolling was
easier to see, but also the demographics of the participants was
profoundly different in contrast to after the Internet opened
comms up to almost everybody. But apart from (debatable)
demographic changes being a proximal cause of negativity I think
one reason for the difference is that it wasn't monetized, most
especially not by folks who <i>do not have users best interests
as their highest priority</i>. In my opinion search and social
media business models and people's perfectly human but apparently
unbounded greed have all but destroyed journalism, most especially
at the local level, and the rest, as they say, is history.</p>
<p>-Pete<br>
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace">Enjoy the faux snow
today<br>
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace">-gregg</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 9:31
AM John Vaughters via TriEmbed <<a
href="mailto:triembed@triembed.org" moz-do-not-send="true">triembed@triembed.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">It's a new decade, email
lists just aren't kool anymore. Can't remember the last
Trilug or TAR email. Over all the email lists in my life,
TriEmbed is the last one that even has some activity. So
Kudos to this group, no matter how small for keeping that
torch and thanks to the organizers that keep it going.<br>
<br>
I remember a discussion in my early 30's with a then
retiree. This question I posed, "I wonder what technology
will expire my participation in the world?" Turns out I have
the answer. Social Media. `,~)<br>
<br>
Of course like all young foolish peeps like I was, I
thought, "My generation is more flexible, more adaptable to
change because we grew up in a tech changing world?" I even
floated the possibility in the conversation. But the truth
is I knew human nature and history too well even then. I
knew that most of us stop being the hip crowd at some point
in life. <br>
<br>
I just can't do social media. No interest there what so
ever.<br>
<br>
But there you have it, a generational divide. I do not mean
to apply my thoughts to any single individual other than me,
but I do think I am just an example of many in my
generation. Most people end up being divided in some form or
manner and technology is a big divider. Just like my
Grandparents always needed their VCR clock set. Just like I
hand my phone to my daughter to fix crap I just don't really
care about. I can keep the lights on by maintaining power
plants, but I could care less about the silly world of
Social Media. But isn't that my divide? Of course it is. <br>
<br>
Not saying I don't use it, but I am saying I generally don't
like it.<br>
<br>
Have a fine day,<br>
<br>
John Vaughters<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Friday, January 8, 2021, 8:53:14 AM EST, Pete Soper via
TriEmbed <<a href="mailto:triembed@triembed.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">triembed@triembed.org</a>>
wrote: <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The web site has a meeting reminder now with bread crumbs to
the Jitsi URL.<br>
<br>
The TriEmbed email list subscriptions have been (99.9%)
monotonically <br>
decreasing for a few years. It is a shame the TAR list was
lost in case <br>
a set difference could have been used for invitations to
this list. So <br>
goes life.<br>
<br>
<br>
-Pete<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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-- <br>
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<div dir="ltr">Gregg Tracton: tired, retired &
inappropriately unattired (PJ's)</div>
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