<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Hey Scott,<br><br></div>I agree. There are a lot of complexities that current autorouting software does not adequately address. Some of these problems can be addressed by adding handles for them in the autorouting software (additional cost associated with being near this group of traces).<br><br></div>Others are harder to handle and a good fix does not come immediately to mind (though I have some possible avenues of research). However, I am not trying to build a general solution. I am trying to make something that lets me wire up a microcontroller with its supporting hardware/serial interfaces and sensors quickly. Most of the lines will be pretty low frequency (CANBus is the sole exception), so I think that many of these issues will not be that bad. Goodness knows I am not accounting for them when I am routing my current boards (apologies to all hardware professionals).<br><br></div>Do you think that these issues will be significant in simple Arduino style applications?<br><br></div>Thanks,<br></div>Charlie<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Scott Hall <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:scottghall1@gmail.com" target="_blank">scottghall1@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Charles,<br><br></div>One of the difficulties I've had with PCB routing and layout in the past is considering crosstalk between traces. You have to consider if similar signals are on adjacent traces and whether signal levels at that point are strong enough to induce inductive currents between them. In audio you can hear this as two disparate channels having a low-level "ghost" of the other channel present. Another consideration is the frequencies involved and the shape of the traces -- sharp corners tend to radiate RFI at higher frequencies. Routing different segments in different shapes using different lengths and possibly adding ground or power traces between them or routing them at angles to each other helps with these two problems. Then you can introduce timing differences between parallel signals -- think how the Olympic tracks have a staggered start for lanes to compensate for larger distances on the outside lanes. You may need to add an S curve to sync things up again. Finally consider the width (and thickness) of traces per the currents that they will have to handle. Most folks underestimate trace losses with routing power (Vcc) and ground (Vdd) signals.<br><br></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 7:17 PM, Charles West <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:crwest@ncsu.edu" target="_blank">crwest@ncsu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Just a quick mention. I'm currently working on an open source auto-router, if anyone is interested in that sort of thing. Too early to tell how useful it would be (but I think I am bad enough at PCB design that it wouldn't be that hard to do better).<br><br></div>Gonna start with a JSON/text based format and use A*/shortest path first routing with an off the shelf gradient free optimizer for component placement. We'll see if it is any good in a few months.<br><br></div>Thanks,<br></div>Charlie<br></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 6:53 PM, Shane Trent via TriEmbed <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:triembed@triembed.org" target="_blank">triembed@triembed.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">The latest Free version of Eagle Supports two schematic sheets. It is also for non-commercial use. <div><a href="https://cadsoft.io/pricing/" target="_blank">https://cadsoft.io/pricing/</a></div><div><div><br></div><div>Eagle PCB was recently purchased by Autodesk.</div><div><a href="http://hackaday.com/2016/07/05/the-future-of-eagle-cad/" target="_blank">http://hackaday.com/2016/07/05<wbr>/the-future-of-eagle-cad/</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Shane</div></div></div><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 6:30 PM Robert Gasiorowski via TriEmbed <<a href="mailto:triembed@triembed.org" target="_blank">triembed@triembed.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">With free version, you can create 2 layer, 100mm x 80mm boards.<div>You can only have one schematic sheet, but it is pretty much unlimited in size. <div>Also, you can create boards that are larger than 100mm x 80mm with free version, but it requires some trickery.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Rob.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 6:06 PM, Scott Hall via TriEmbed <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:triembed@triembed.org" target="_blank">triembed@triembed.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Over the last year or so the TriEmbed group has had this very discussion. So I am cross-posting this to TriEmbed's discussion so that folks can reiterate the information.<br><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Ian Baillie</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mountainman28753@gmail.com" target="_blank">mountainman28753@gmail.com</a>></span><br>Date: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 4:57 PM<br>Subject: [Splat Space] Re: PCB design software<br>To: Splat Space <<a href="mailto:durham-makerspace@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">durham-makerspace@googlegroup<wbr>s.com</a>><br><br><div dir="ltr"><span>On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 2:14:48 PM UTC-4, bill wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir="ltr">Can someone give me the quick rundown of Eagle PCB design software? I was thinking it was free but it appears that it is limited restricted based on various design requirements,<div><br></div><div>If I need to make some simple two sided boards, what version of the software would I need? Can I produce schematic files to send to a fab shop with the free version? What are the restrictions?</div><div><br></div><div>I appreciate any help offered.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>Bill</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote></span><div>Look into Kicad, that is the software we've been using at our space (Asheville), with good results. It is actually free, instead of partially free. Prior to that, we used Eagle. Just.my .02 </div></div><span><font color="#888888"><div><div>
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