<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429271985928_62840" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429271985928_62841">I think the type of class depends on what you want to teach - I bet each of those student populations is out there!<br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429271985928_72108" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429271985928_62841"><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429271985928_72107" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429271985928_62841">My personal "embedded software engineering 101" class idea is for someone who already knows how to program (any language, doesn't matter), maybe already a professional software engineer, maybe a motivated college student-age person, and they want to become a professional embedded software engineer. Or at least take the first step to being able to do the work of a professional embedded software engineer.<br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429271985928_62842" dir="ltr"><br><span></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429271985928_62843" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429271985928_62844">I'd love to hear from anyone who might fit that description: what would you like to learn?</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429271985928_72101" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429271985928_72106" dir="ltr">Thanks,</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429271985928_72105" dir="ltr"><br><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429271985928_62844"></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429271985928_72104" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429271985928_62844">-svec</span></div> <br><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Friday, April 17, 2015 1:57 PM, Burr Sutter <burrsutter@gmail.com> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv4566537771"><div><div dir="ltr">Hey Jon,<div><br clear="none"></div><div>I like the basic idea, the challenge will be finding the sweet spot of prerequisites for a potential student. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>For instance, would you say the prereq is a solid understanding of all the concepts demonstrated by Terry's YourDuino [1] (wish I had known about this kit a couple of years ago)?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Or is the prereq more Lego mindstorms for the kids looking to learn?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Or is the prereq a professional software developer looking to become a C++ embedded engineer?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>If you would like to kick the idea around...I would be happy to provide input/ideas.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>[1] <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://arduino-info.wikispaces.com/YourDuinoEngStarter">http://arduino-info.wikispaces.com/YourDuinoEngStarter</a></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div class="yiv4566537771gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv4566537771gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Jon Wolfe <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jonjwolfe@anibit.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jonjwolfe@anibit.com">jonjwolfe@anibit.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv4566537771gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><u></u>
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<div>This is the kind of thing I would *really* love to expand my business to. In fact, it's sort of part of my mission statement. I've been trying for the past year to turn my passion/hobby into my profession, and I kicked it off by becoming a parts distributor. I've mentioned to some how reselling has been a little less than rewarding. It's not that I don't like doing it, I do. However, after recently doing my taxes, it's apparent that reselling is not going to be any sort of business stepping stone to bigger and better things. I was so close to breaking even that my entire profit for last year was less than what I make in one day as a consultant. And that's on top of the fact that I can't match the prices of most of the big-time hobby electronics site.</div>
<div>One thing that I have had a desire to do is be part of education in the Hobby Electronics and embedded development space. A lot of the original ideas I've been cooking up center around that theme. That is why I made the <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://anibit.com/3pi_programmer_windows">Graphical Robot Programming Tool</a>. I think there several "tiers" that exist for education and training programs. The graphical programmer is aimed at kids and non-technical adults, but I think there is another area that seems underserved, and it of particular interest to me that that is the group of the kind of people who might be inclined to check out Triembed for the first time. It's people who might have a little electronics or programming knowledge and want to go to the "next level". For the Arduino example, it's a great tools for absolute beginners, but as your AVR and C++ programming skills grow, it starts to become an obstacle to doing more advanced software design and development. </div>
<div>I'd absolutely be interested in putting together some sort of program for people who want to learn embedded C/C++ and are ready or almost ready to move past the Arduino. </div>
<div>How much interest is there among this mailing list for something like a several session class in AVR and/or Arduino programming(this would be a separate distinct thing from Triembed)? Would it be something you'd be willing to take a paid class in? If not that topic, is there an interest in something else? My specialties lie in embedded and desktop/mobile software development and digital electronics.</div>
<div>I've put together a survey <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1lJeUbzZxauLuYmlxXwiVOeCYjN27ZjR98_bQb2XzG3Y/viewform?usp=send_form">here</a>, if anyone is interested in giving me feedback on interest in classes.</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
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<div>On 2015-04-15 22:36, John Rock wrote:</div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri', sans-serif;color:#1f497d;">I'd sign up for Embedded Software Engineering 101.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri', sans-serif;color:#1f497d;">I find the TriEmbed meetings great, but a bit over my head (at least at this point in my journey).</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri', sans-serif;">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri', sans-serif;"> TriEmbed [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:triembed-bounces@triembed.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:triembed-bounces@triembed.org">triembed-bounces@triembed.org</a>] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Christopher Svec<br clear="none"><strong>Sent:</strong> Wednesday, April 15, 2015 16:15<br clear="none"><strong>To:</strong> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:burrsutter@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:burrsutter@gmail.com">burrsutter@gmail.com</a><br clear="none"><strong>Cc:</strong> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:triembed@triembed.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:triembed@triembed.org">triembed@triembed.org</a><br clear="none"><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [TriEmbed] Learning Curve</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">There are two types of people in the world: those who think there are two types of people in the world, and those who don't. :-)</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">I used "maker" vs "engineer" as if they were two mutually exclusive ecosystems, but really I think the "maker" vs "engineer" distinction is just two very fuzzy regions on a spectrum, with all sorts of different tradeoffs between them.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">I love the question of how to go from Arduino to "lower level" embedded stuff, without a stop at an engineering degree along the way.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">This free edX course covers some of the "engineering" side: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.edx.org/course/embedded-systems-shape-world-utaustinx-ut-6-02x">https://www.edx.org/course/embedded-systems-shape-world-utaustinx-ut-6-02x</a></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">But aside from that I don't know of any prepackaged resources. I hope other people do!</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">I've considered putting together an "Embedded Software Engineering 101" type of class, but wasn't sure if there was any audience for such a thing.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Arial', sans-serif;color:black;">On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 3:31 PM, Burr Sutter <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:burrsutter@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:burrsutter@gmail.com">burrsutter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:35 AM, Christopher Svec <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:christophersvec@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:christophersvec@yahoo.com">christophersvec@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">Great! That leads to another question: which ecosystem?</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">I would classify the products you've listed (Arduino, RaspPi, Spark, etc.) as mostly from what I call the "maker" ecosystem, meaning they're "batteries included" products useful in prototyping and product/experience exploration. And the products you've called out are definitely the top ones in that ecosystem.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">Another ecosystem is what I call the "engineering" ecosystem, meaning embedded products intended for high volume and high reliability products; it's anything you might want to manufacture and ship a bunch of (and not have them fail in the field).</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">I have been asking about the "maker" vs "engineering" distinction in other forums. Some folks believe there are two different universes, some think that one is merely an extension of the other, that there is a spectrum (not binary) of skills engineering/crafting for different needs/requirements.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">The "maker" and "engineering" ecosystems can both create a product that does the same thing, but cost, design time, scale, reliability, etc. will be quite different.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">Does that make sense?</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">I am interested in the "starting as a maker" and then "becoming a real engineer" journey. I feel that one can learn a lot in the Arduino/RPi/Spark/Intel Edison world and then begin to learn ARM's mbed...then TI/FreeScale/SiliconLabs. What are the stepping stones (for someone unwilling to go back to school for an electrical engineering degree)?</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">(See? I love questions! :-) )</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">Thank you very much for your responses! :-)</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">-svec</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Arial', sans-serif;color:black;">On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 9:20 AM, Burr Sutter <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:burrsutter@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:burrsutter@gmail.com">burrsutter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">I think that is a perfectly fair question...my focus is on learning at this time, trying to understand the overall ecosystem. </span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 8:20 AM, Christopher Svec <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:christophersvec@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:christophersvec@yahoo.com">christophersvec@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">Yes! I totally agree about the growth of our once-very-niche industry.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">Another question to consider is "what are you trying to do or accomplish as an end-goal?", in addition to the "where to invest time & energy to learn" question.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">You can spend the rest of your life testing & learning each new platform or dev board or widget that comes out - and there's nothing wrong with that at all! Especially if pure learning is your goal.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">But is that what you're after?</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">(I'm a fan of frequently backing up and asking the big picture "why?" questions.)</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">-svec</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Arial', sans-serif;color:black;">On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 8:05 AM, Burr Sutter <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:burrsutter@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:burrsutter@gmail.com">burrsutter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">The world of embedded microcontrollers has seen some dramatic growth (from my perspective) and it is tough to figure out where to invest my learning time & energy. </span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">I have followed this path so far:</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">1) Arduino</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">2) Raspberry Pi</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">3) Spark Core</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">4) Intel Edison (just using it as a Linux box so far)</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">5) TI SensorTag</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">and played a bit with the NXP LPC1768 running mbed (<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://mbed.org/">http://mbed.org/</a>)</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">Mostly I have been simply playing with the various "developer kits" where my mission is on detection and connection - trying to understand what can be sensed and how to get the data back to the cloud.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">How do you all feel about mbed? Is that worthy of expending dozens/hundreds of hours of learning time? And if so, which of the various ARM/mbed-based hardware vendors are interesting to you?</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4566537771MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica', sans-serif;color:black;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Triangle, NC Embedded Computing mailing list<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:TriEmbed@triembed.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:TriEmbed@triembed.org">TriEmbed@triembed.org</a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org">http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org</a><br clear="none">TriEmbed web site: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://triembed.org/">http://TriEmbed.org</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></span></div>
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<pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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</div></div><span class="yiv4566537771HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"></font></span><div>-- <br clear="none">
<pre>Jon Wolfe
Anibit Technology LLC.
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://anibit.com/">https://anibit.com
</a></pre>
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