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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I’d sign up for Embedded Software Engineering 101.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I find the TriEmbed meetings great, but a bit over my head (at least at this point in my journey).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>John Rock<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> TriEmbed [mailto:triembed-bounces@triembed.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Christopher Svec<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 15, 2015 16:15<br><b>To:</b> burrsutter@gmail.com<br><b>Cc:</b> triembed@triembed.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TriEmbed] Learning Curve<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429111519392_42222"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>There are two types of people in the world: those who think there are two types of people in the world, and those who don't. :-)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429111519392_61452"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429111519392_57955"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>I used "maker" vs "engineer" as if they were two mutually exclusive ecosystems, but really I think the "maker" vs "engineer" distinction is just two very fuzzy regions on a spectrum, with all sorts of different tradeoffs between them.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429111519392_37029"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429111519392_38756"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>I love the question of how to go from Arduino to "lower level" embedded stuff, without a stop at an engineering degree along the way.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429111519392_42223"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429111519392_42224"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>This free edX course covers some of the "engineering" side: <a href="https://www.edx.org/course/embedded-systems-shape-world-utaustinx-ut-6-02x" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429111519392_42226">https://www.edx.org/course/embedded-systems-shape-world-utaustinx-ut-6-02x</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429111519392_54461"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429111519392_54462"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>But aside from that I don't know of any prepackaged resources. I hope other people do!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429111519392_54463"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429111519392_54464"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>I've considered putting together an "Embedded Software Engineering 101" type of class, but wasn't sure if there was any audience for such a thing.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429111519392_71883"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429111519392_71884"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 3:31 PM, Burr Sutter <<a href="mailto:burrsutter@gmail.com">burrsutter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div id=yiv2217338778><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:35 AM, Christopher Svec <<a href="mailto:christophersvec@yahoo.com" target="_blank">christophersvec@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Great! That leads to another question: which ecosystem?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>I would classify the products you've listed (Arduino, RaspPi, Spark, etc.) as mostly from what I call the "maker" ecosystem, meaning they're "batteries included" products useful in prototyping and product/experience exploration. And the products you've called out are definitely the top ones in that ecosystem.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Another ecosystem is what I call the "engineering" ecosystem, meaning embedded products intended for high volume and high reliability products; it's anything you might want to manufacture and ship a bunch of (and not have them fail in the field).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>I have been asking about the "maker" vs "engineering" distinction in other forums. Some folks believe there are two different universes, some think that one is merely an extension of the other, that there is a spectrum (not binary) of skills engineering/crafting for different needs/requirements.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>The "maker" and "engineering" ecosystems can both create a product that does the same thing, but cost, design time, scale, reliability, etc. will be quite different.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Does that make sense?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Totally<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>I am interested in the "starting as a maker" and then "becoming a real engineer" journey. I feel that one can learn a lot in the Arduino/RPi/Spark/Intel Edison world and then begin to learn ARM's mbed...then TI/FreeScale/SiliconLabs. What are the stepping stones (for someone unwilling to go back to school for an electrical engineering degree)?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>(See? I love questions! :-) )<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Thank you very much for your responses! :-)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id=yiv2217338778yqtfd81845><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>-svec<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Chris Svec<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Senior Principal Software Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>iRobot<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 9:20 AM, Burr Sutter <<a href="mailto:burrsutter@gmail.com" target="_blank">burrsutter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>I think that is a perfectly fair question...my focus is on learning at this time, trying to understand the overall ecosystem. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 8:20 AM, Christopher Svec <<a href="mailto:christophersvec@yahoo.com" target="_blank">christophersvec@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Yes! I totally agree about the growth of our once-very-niche industry.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Another question to consider is "what are you trying to do or accomplish as an end-goal?", in addition to the "where to invest time & energy to learn" question.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>You can spend the rest of your life testing & learning each new platform or dev board or widget that comes out - and there's nothing wrong with that at all! Especially if pure learning is your goal.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>But is that what you're after?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>(I'm a fan of frequently backing up and asking the big picture "why?" questions.)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>-svec<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 8:05 AM, Burr Sutter <<a href="mailto:burrsutter@gmail.com" target="_blank">burrsutter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>The world of embedded microcontrollers has seen some dramatic growth (from my perspective) and it is tough to figure out where to invest my learning time & energy. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>I have followed this path so far:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>1) Arduino<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>2) Raspberry Pi<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>3) Spark Core<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>4) Intel Edison (just using it as a Linux box so far)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>5) TI SensorTag<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>and played a bit with the NXP LPC1768 running mbed (<a href="http://mbed.org/" target="_blank">http://mbed.org/</a>)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Mostly I have been simply playing with the various "developer kits" where my mission is on detection and connection - trying to understand what can be sensed and how to get the data back to the cloud.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>How do you all feel about mbed? Is that worthy of expending dozens/hundreds of hours of learning time? And if so, which of the various ARM/mbed-based hardware vendors are interesting to you?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Triangle, NC Embedded Computing mailing list<br><a href="mailto:TriEmbed@triembed.org" target="_blank">TriEmbed@triembed.org</a><br><a href="http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org" target="_blank">http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org</a><br>TriEmbed web site: <a href="http://triembed.org/" target="_blank">http://TriEmbed.org</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div id=yiv2217338778yqtfd26791><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>