[TriEmbed] Project advice: SmartTV hacking

Thu Jul 28 11:20:47 CDT 2022

Looks like this is one of those cases that working remotely leads to overengineering. I wonder if it's cheaper/easier and more versatile to hire a local guy who would do QA and device troubleshooting all day long.

Huan Truong
tnhh.net

On Jul 28, 2022, at 6:22 AM, Brian Chamberlain via TriEmbed <triembed at triembed.org> wrote:

Yeah, I have the same worries. And from the teardown videos I've been watching on youtube I noticed some custom ASICs in the pixel pipeline. Given this industry trend overall to move this way there will be almost no (reasonable) way "tap into" anything that resembles a video feed going forward. But there's still opportunity here as their camera at TV approach is very DIY so perhaps I can help them distill that into a more consistent and scalable solution on their end.

Thanks all for the advice! It was really helpful to get all your views on this.

-Brian

On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 3:08 PM Kevin McClaning via TriEmbed <triembed at triembed.org> wrote:
> I worry that each TV would become its own reverse-engineering adventure, due to differing chip sets. Also, the internal chip sets will change as time progresses. Even the same model of TV may have an entirely different internal structure.  
> 
> Sorry to say it, but I think their web cam solution is probably the best one. Maybe add some 3D printed love to give them more standardized camera mounts for the various TVs types. Also, appropriate lenses may allow for cameras that don't have to stick out so much from the screen.
> 
> The thing you can count on from EVERY TV is that it will display a picture and its menus to the user.
> 
> K
> 
> 
> 
> On 7/27/22 14:51, Brian Chamberlain via TriEmbed wrote:
>> Interesting 🤔 idea. I will ask them if they've looked into it. Thanks!
>> -Brian
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 2:35 PM Trampas Stern <trampas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> It might be better to look and see if you can capture the frame buffer and send over the network,  think remote desktop.  I have not looked at the SmartTV API but it might include this capability for app developers. 
>>> 
>>> Trampas
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 2:29 PM Brian Chamberlain via TriEmbed <triembed at triembed.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi Scott, Thanks for the advice and suggestions (and very cool diagram BTW). This client makes media/software for smartTVs. So part of their development process is that they need to test their content/software on actual TVs. They have a solution for testing Roku's, AppleTV, game consoles, etc...since those all have HDMI outputs. But there's a whole list of major brand TV's and models they want to be able to test in a similar/consistent way. Their engineering staff is remote so I'm guessing they'd want to rack and stack these modded TV's somewhere so they can access the output of the TV via a video stream, controlled by some kind of IR blaster interface... if that helps paint a better picture.
>>>> 
>>>> So, at this point I'm just putting together the SOW (which would include some exploratory hands-on TV teardowns and investigation) and requirements gathering. My gut says that there's probably not some silver bullet solution. Each of these TV's (and maybe even different revs of the same models) will have very different internals. So every model/brand would be it's own research project. But perhaps some have debug/diagnostic outputs somewhere on the main board? Though that really feels like wishful thinking. But I am also hoping there's some other entirely sane approach to this. 
>>>>  
>>>> -Brian
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 12:08 PM Scott Hall <scottghall1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Brian,
>>>>> This is done all the time in companies, churches and schools for "electronic signage".  First, with the chipsets used, the rendering of the video signals is not in a form that can be 'tapped off' to be able to make a transmittable signal, unless the motherboard of the TV is already doing that for its own features -- in other words already creating an HDMI output port.  Essentially what I do when consulting with places is to get an external Roku device and forgo the internal "smart" works, then use an HDMI distributing amplifier.  If you have more than one signal source, like cable, Roku, DVD, etc, then an external HDMI switch is used.  You chain the devices together kind of like this:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cable     ──→╖                  ╓───→ TV or Monitor
>>>>>              ╠══════╗    ╔══════╣
>>>>> DVR/Camera──→╢4-to-1║    ║1-to-4╟───→ TV or Monitor
>>>>>              ║ HDMI ╟───→╢ Dist.║
>>>>> DVD Player──→╢Switch║    ║ Amp  ╟───→ TV or Monitor
>>>>>              ╠══════╝    ╚══════╣     
>>>>> Streaming ──→╜                  ╙───→ TV or Monitor
>>>>>   Device
>>>>> 
>>>>> a sample link for a 4-to-1 HDMI switch: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00OJMAXZ2/ (really a 4-to-2 switch, as it has 2 outputs)
>>>>> 
>>>>> a sample link to a 1-to-4 HDMI distribution amp: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0180PPTNO/
>>>>> 
>>>>> link to a review of switches and dist. amps: https://www.gearhungry.com/best-hdmi-splitter/
>>>>> 
>>>>> - sgh
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 10:50 AM Brian Chamberlain via TriEmbed <triembed at triembed.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all, Just wondering if anyone here has any TV hardware reverse engineering experience? I have a client asking if I can pull a usable HDMI signal off of “SmartTVs”. Basically, they want a mirror of what is on the display panel (menus and all). Not just one TV but multiple brands/models.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Their current solution is pointing a web cam at the TV from a distance. They’re looking for something more scalable (less space requirements, easier setup, more TV brand selection, etc). 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My answer to them at this is, “maybe and I’ll look into it”. They seem willing to pay me to do the investigation. Which sounds like fun but I am looking to talk with anyone who might have any experience with this or could point me in the right direction.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> -Brian
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Scott G. Hall
>>>>> Raleigh, NC, USA
>>>>> scottghall1 at gmail.com
>>>>> Although kindness is rarely a job, no matter what you do it's always an option.
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