[TriEmbed] Long range digital communication (long range wifi, XBee?)

Thu Oct 25 16:06:43 CDT 2018

I would suggest using a 900Mhz base station someplace on the property where there is an RF view to the rest of the property.  You are allowed 1 watt with a frequency hopping system.  Then use stations in the robots and wherever your control system is, all within almost line-of-site with your base station.  You can get 100kbits/sec shared bandwidth.  you’d have your base station set up as a channel control device offering up time-slots to your mobile assets and the control station.  If you had 2 robots you’d probably end up with 2000 or 3000 bytes per second per robot, split between robot transmissions and robot receptions. 
Part 15.247 FCC rules I think.
Campbell Scientific RF401A .     There was a Microwave Data Systems of Rochester that made equipment for this. 
Can be in-house manufactured too depending on your volume. 

    Tadd

Tadd / KA2DEW
tadd at mac.com
Raleigh NC  FM05pv

“Packet networking over ham radio": http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html <http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html>
Local Raleigh ham radio info: http://torborg.com/a <http://torborg.com/a>  

> On Oct 25, 2018, at 3:56 PM, Chip McClelland via TriEmbed <triembed at triembed.org> wrote:
> 
> Charles, 
> 
> I am working on a project for a CA client who wants to use LoRa.  It is not able to send video but is very energy efficient and has range that could easily cover a golf course from a single gateway at the clubhouse.  
> 
> Depending on where you are, you may also be able to use a LoRaWAN service which has a service provider, I am using MachineQ from Comcast.  
> 
> It uses the same Low Power Labs RMS69W radios at 915MHz.  Hope this helps.
> 
> Chip
> 
> 
> 
> Chip McClelland
> chip at mcclellands.org
> (919) 624-5562
> On Oct 25, 2018, 3:43 PM -0400, triembed-request at triembed.org, wrote:
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>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>> 1. Re: Coffee roaster (Shane Trent)
>> 2. Long range digital communication (long range wifi, XBee?)
>> (Charles West)
>> 3. Re: Long range digital communication (long range wifi, XBee?)
>> (Glen Smith)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 14:32:25 -0400
>> From: Shane Trent <shanedtrent at gmail.com>
>> To: TriEmbed Discussion <triembed at triembed.org>
>> Subject: Re: [TriEmbed] Coffee roaster
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAAFjd3raX35XcbvJtf8uVF6aYrircZsAuVpUtHhHX4KQzu+BVg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Craig,
>> 
>> A hot air roast should take much less than 30 minutes. It was cool this
>> morning and I roasted two batches, both to medium City Roast (just past the
>> end of the first crack), and each was less than 6 minutes. I am using a
>> vintage unit but have had similar performance from other devices. It sounds
>> like your old air-popper may have had a temperature limit that kept it from
>> getting hot enough. I did have one popper model that I had to hack into and
>> bypass the low-temperature thermostat (but it still seemed to roast slow
>> and did not last as long a unmodified units). In an air popper the roast
>> should happen so quickly that it is easy to keep an eye on it.
>> 
>> I put some notes about my current roasting/cooling setup into a blog post.
>> My controls over the roaster are adjusting the recirculation of heat to
>> increase the temperature of the air going into the popper and controlling
>> the ventilation with a bilge blower. I think the photos show most of the
>> details. I hope it makes sense. Ping me if you have any questions.
>> 
>> http://fettricks.blogspot.com/2018/10/roasting-coffee-with-hot-air-poppcorn.html
>> 
>> Shane
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 7:53 PM Craig Cook via TriEmbed <
>> triembed at triembed.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> I have been using this
>>> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XK3ALS0/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>> for the last 8 years roasting green beans.
>>> 
>>> That has the side vents, takes ~30 mins to roast. Works *really* well. I
>>> burned the motor out 2 weeks ago. It's discontinued. Thought I should
>>> migrate to an arduino based version, hence my questions and asking for
>>> advice on what parts I should purchase.
>>> 
>>> Yes, after the roast I dump the beans into a cooling basket.
>>> 
>>> I have one of these to replace it:
>>> https://www.gopresto.com/product/presto-poplite-hot-air-corn-popper-04820
>>> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006IUWA/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>> 
>>> Given that new information, would it change the proposed design?
>>> 
>>> It will be much better if I can control the roasting process though.
>>> Without control I get a few over roasted beans.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for everyone's help.
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Triangle, NC Embedded Computing mailing list
>>> 
>>> To post message: TriEmbed at triembed.org
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>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 15:23:22 -0400
>> From: Charles West <crwest at ncsu.edu>
>> To: TriEmbed <triembed at triembed.org>
>> Subject: [TriEmbed] Long range digital communication (long range wifi,
>> XBee?)
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAGojqSkE6PJ8tj5cL6YY=ppJxDt=WYamKJ9CdG-1gi9Qga0HGg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Hello!
>> 
>> I'm in Lansdale, PA now but I was hoping I might be able to pick you guy's
>> brains. My current big project is trying to build one or more robots to
>> deliver food/drinks on golf courses. I'm currently trying to figure out
>> the best way to maintain continuous(ish) contact between a access
>> point/basestation at it's base of operations and 1 or more robots operating
>> on the course.
>> 
>> At a minimum, I would like to have the robot report its basic status
>> (battery percent, GPS position) but it would also be great if it could
>> stream video when required to allow teleprescence steering or determination
>> of what is going on. The robot would probably be about 1 km from the base
>> station at max.
>> 
>> I'm currently considering 3 possible solutions but I'm pretty open to ideas:
>> 
>> 1. Use a mobile hotspot/cell modem:
>> For fixed $130 and monthly $20, I can get a mobile hotspot which
>> provides one gig of data per month and more data for $5/gig. If I keep the
>> reporting really light, this could work but the communication would have to
>> be kept pretty limited.
>> 
>> 2. XBee:
>> These modules seem to float somewhere between $25 and $60 in
>> prices, so a pair would be somewhere in the $50 to $120 range. Sparkfun
>> had a good guide to XBee (https://www.sparkfun.com/pages/xbee_guide) but
>> they are listing almost all of their products as retired (besides old
>> series 1) and most of the stuff I read about XBee is from 2015-2016 so I am
>> not sure what the best options are anymore. In any case, it looks like it
>> would provide a low baud rate connection over the desired range. The main
>> problem is that it requires working through XBee and making my basestation
>> have to have special software to forward information. I'm also not sure
>> about security and it is certainly not going to be streaming video.
>> 
>> 3. Long range Wifi:
>> Rodney's done some work in this area before with his weather
>> balloon projects. I don't recall off the top of my head how far he managed
>> to get but I do remember he had to use higher power than allowed without a
>> higher grade amateur radio license. That power level would not work for a
>> commercial operation. There are some companies that are selling solutions
>> aimed at farms (http://ayrstone.com/www/?v=7516fd43adaa) and there seem to
>> be off the shelf solutions that can get 500 ft (mostly aimed at hotels).
>> The hotel systems seem to be in the $350 range and the farm systems in the
>> $500 or so. The robot could use a high gain antenna, but it is not clear
>> how much it helps. These systems have security built in and potentially
>> can stream video if the range is long enough. Like hotspots, writing
>> software for them would also be easy.
>> 
>> What do you guys think?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Charlie
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>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 14:43:31 -0500
>> From: Glen Smith <mrglenasmith at gmail.com>
>> To: Charles West <crwest at ncsu.edu>
>> Cc: TriEmbed <triembed at triembed.org>
>> Subject: Re: [TriEmbed] Long range digital communication (long range
>> wifi, XBee?)
>> Message-ID:
>> <CANwtiDV803kUwF2HeFvODfM54s1Bytey0MB3G497okKije-coQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Charles,
>> 
>> I played around with Moteinos https://lowpowerlab.com/guide/moteino/ for a
>> while and had good luck with the RFM69 radios, I don't remember what
>> frequency I was using.
>> 
>> I just recently was listening to an episode
>> <https://theamphour.com/398-an-interview-with-felix-rusu/> of The Amp Hour
>> where Chris interviewed the guy who makes these - he is getting very good
>> range depending on all the usual variables. It might be worth checking them
>> out.
>> 
>> Glen
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 3:23 PM Charles West via TriEmbed <
>> triembed at triembed.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello!
>>> 
>>> I'm in Lansdale, PA now but I was hoping I might be able to pick you guy's
>>> brains. My current big project is trying to build one or more robots to
>>> deliver food/drinks on golf courses. I'm currently trying to figure out
>>> the best way to maintain continuous(ish) contact between a access
>>> point/basestation at it's base of operations and 1 or more robots operating
>>> on the course.
>>> 
>>> At a minimum, I would like to have the robot report its basic status
>>> (battery percent, GPS position) but it would also be great if it could
>>> stream video when required to allow teleprescence steering or determination
>>> of what is going on. The robot would probably be about 1 km from the base
>>> station at max.
>>> 
>>> I'm currently considering 3 possible solutions but I'm pretty open to
>>> ideas:
>>> 
>>> 1. Use a mobile hotspot/cell modem:
>>> For fixed $130 and monthly $20, I can get a mobile hotspot which
>>> provides one gig of data per month and more data for $5/gig. If I keep the
>>> reporting really light, this could work but the communication would have to
>>> be kept pretty limited.
>>> 
>>> 2. XBee:
>>> These modules seem to float somewhere between $25 and $60 in
>>> prices, so a pair would be somewhere in the $50 to $120 range. Sparkfun
>>> had a good guide to XBee (https://www.sparkfun.com/pages/xbee_guide) but
>>> they are listing almost all of their products as retired (besides old
>>> series 1) and most of the stuff I read about XBee is from 2015-2016 so I am
>>> not sure what the best options are anymore. In any case, it looks like it
>>> would provide a low baud rate connection over the desired range. The main
>>> problem is that it requires working through XBee and making my basestation
>>> have to have special software to forward information. I'm also not sure
>>> about security and it is certainly not going to be streaming video.
>>> 
>>> 3. Long range Wifi:
>>> Rodney's done some work in this area before with his weather
>>> balloon projects. I don't recall off the top of my head how far he managed
>>> to get but I do remember he had to use higher power than allowed without a
>>> higher grade amateur radio license. That power level would not work for a
>>> commercial operation. There are some companies that are selling solutions
>>> aimed at farms (http://ayrstone.com/www/?v=7516fd43adaa) and there seem
>>> to be off the shelf solutions that can get 500 ft (mostly aimed at
>>> hotels). The hotel systems seem to be in the $350 range and the farm
>>> systems in the $500 or so. The robot could use a high gain antenna, but it
>>> is not clear how much it helps. These systems have security built in and
>>> potentially can stream video if the range is long enough. Like hotspots,
>>> writing software for them would also be easy.
>>> 
>>> What do you guys think?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Charlie
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Triangle, NC Embedded Computing mailing list
>>> 
>>> To post message: TriEmbed at triembed.org
>>> List info: http://mail.triembed.org/mailman/listinfo/triembed_triembed.org
>>> TriEmbed web site: http://TriEmbed.org
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>>> 
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